by Benjamen Johnson
One day my wife brought home an invitation to a Norwex party after picking up our son from preschool. Apparently all the mothers were positively glowing about their microfiber cloth products. They were saying that you didn’t need any cleaning solutions, just this use this silver impregnated microfiber cloth and water. The claim sounded too good to be true; it set my skeptic senses tingling.
The first thing I did was try to find the Norwex website to see exactly what they sold and what they claimed. From their website:
Our line of cleaning products will save you time & money, improve health, and move towards creating a better environment. Norwex microfiber goes beyond “surface clean” with the innovative use of silver particles integrated into synthetic microfiber cloth ensure:
- Single-celled micro-organisms such as bacteria, fungi, yeast, and viruses cannot survive or adapt in silver exposure
- Surface-to-surface cross-contamination is eliminated
- Rapidly drying cloths prevent bacteria growth in the cloth itself
Cleaning with water only produces a healthy outcome for us and the environment.
Laboratory tests have proven that Norwex antibacterial microfiber reduced bacteria by 99.99% in 24 hours!
Breaking the marketing down line by line I spotted the following red flags:
- The product makes some big claims.
- Since when is a virus a micro-organism?
- They only give laboratory results for antibacterial properties, but what about fungi, yeast, and viruses?
And I asked the following questions:
- How do the silver particles in the cloth get close enough to kill the “micro-organisms” on the surface?
- Who performed these laboratory tests, what tests were performed, and what were the actual results?
- Would you get the same result with a normal Micro-fiber cloth?
The red flags by themselves don’t necessarily mean the claims aren’t true. Many legitimate products inflate their claims and get facts wrong in ad copy — colloquially people call a virus a micro-organism, but technically it’s not. I was a bit more worried about the cherry picking of results. Still there wasn’t enough information from the Norwex website to make an informed decision.
The next thing to ask was, “does the science check out?” Unfortunately, in this case there was so much misinformation about silver on the web that trying to wade through the ton of information to separate out the science from the bunk would have been pointless for somebody who’s not a microbiologist.
The only thing left for me was to try to find other trustworthy people who have written about the product and see if their reasoning held up. Searching for Norwex on Google, I was buried in sites giving the products glowing reviews — all testimonials and anecdotal evidence, no real science. The only place I found people critical of Norwex was a thread in the JREF forums.
On the forums several people asked the same questions I did. One reasonable sounding person, who turned out to be a Norwex consultant, gave the name of a different Norwex website that seemed to explain some of their claims without the marketing speak, but still didn’t address the elephant in the room: are Norwex microfiber cloths any better than normal microfiber cloths or other common cleaning products? One person actually acquired studies Norwex cites and forwarded them on to another forum poster who said he was a biologist. Here’s his summary:
Overall, none of the cited materials say anything valid about the superiority of the Norwex microfiber cloth (or the earlier ACT cloth) over cleaning with an actual cleaner (e.g. bleach). The only testing that they cite was completely non valid for that purpose, and involved dropping a material on a surface and wiping it off. This is entirely unlike actual household or hospital conditions. Based on my review of the supplied documents provided by Norwex, it is my opinion as a biologist that their claims of being able to safely and effectively replace chemical cleaning agents with just water are unsupported.
In conclusion, I never found any real hard evidence to back up the claims Norwex makes, only anecdotes, testimonials, and marketing hype. Until they publish some real peer-reviewed, double blind studies, I would neither spend my money on their product nor trust it to disinfect any area of my home.
Thanks for that article. I’m a Norwex consultant and have the same irks about the absence of viral/fungal tests. I do feel sorry for your local Norwex consultant!
)
Aside from that argument, it kicks butt cleaning against any other green cleaning agent and a bunch of chemical ones too. Most people just love how it lasts for years and does the job well.
take care
zippy
Norwex Consultants are provided with MSDS sheets, along with the laboratory information that supports the products claims. I honestly couldn’t find anything helpful when I searched online either. I know some things we are allowed to share and some we aren’t. I would be more than happy to help anyone validate anything regarding Norwex. I love the products and use them for my cleaning business which has allowed us to lower what we charge for window cleaning and regular home and office cleaning by 15.00/cleaning and 2.00/window. That’s my take
Rosalie Narveson
Norwex Independent Sales Consultant
****Deleted contact info, we’re not a Yellow Pages. If you want to contact Rosalie, go to her website (hint click link on top of post)****
I just got a Norwex cloth for Christmas from my mom who tried to sell me on all of its ‘magical’ properties, and I have started searching online for answers as to whether there is any good science to back up all of the claims that are made (I am very doubtful), which is how I found this post. I think at this point I’ll just use it like I would any other rag.
Your thoughts are flawed in a few ways. 1: norwex does not claim to kill germs on contact as you think they have. None of your household cleaners can do that either including bleach. Silver as well as chemicals like bleach require prolonged contact with germs, micro whatys, or viruses or whatever you want to call them. The difference with norwex is the microfiber swipe across your counter removes the bacteria or virus from your surface and retains it. Then over several hours the organisms are killed as they sit amongst the nano silver hoobagawhatyswith in the cloth. I am not a biologist and was able to figure that out. Here is a link with some research Mr. Biologist
http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/3594/can-one-use-norwexs-microfiber-cloths-and-products-to-clean-without-chemicals
Micro-whatys? Are you serious?
First, you are right they do not claim to kill germs on contact.
Second, thank you for pointing me to the skeptics StackExchange site, I’ve never run across it before.
Third, the analysis of the Norwex claims on the stackexchange site are interesting, which begs the question, why isn’t Norwex presenting this evidence, rather than the weak studies they cite as evidence. They make a specific claim “Laboratory tests have proven that Norwex antibacterial microfiber reduced bacteria by 99.99% in 24 hours!” but they did not produce that study when questioned. If a company want to use science to back up their claims, they better have the science to back up their claims.
Fourth, from the analysis. “In other words, these aren’t wiping/cleaning tests for a contaminated surface; they’re simply finding out if bacterial cultures grow on the material, and find that they don’t.” Not growing and killing are not the same thing.” This statement satisfies the specific claims in that article, not the ones made in this one.
I’m not convinced that Norwex works any better than any other cheaper microfiber cloth to remove bacteria, fungi, yeast, and viruses from surfaces. And I certainly wouldn’t trust their product alone to keep from spreading soumanilla or other nastiness either. So whats the point of buying their overpriced rag?
The point is u are not buying a closet of chemicals repeatedly which are far more expensive and take up a ton o space. I guarantee that niether u or your wife use any of the chemicals ina manner that kills germs even half as well as you think they are (who is going to bleach soak their counter top for 10 minutes everytime a contaminate is used. Lucky if you do it once every few weeks. So if the rags are as effective as cleaner or even a little less effective then great, because the proper use with the rags is only a few wipes over the surface versus 10 min contact which no one does. Our laziness is what make the rags more effective than traditional chemicals. Then we ge to the ability of cleaning glass without streaks e even with a dirty rag. Saves windex and paper towels (cotton rags are streak machines). Soapscum is another big one. Remover is expensive whereas with microfiber all you need is water. I am sure there are less expensive alternatives, but dont atack the company for false claims because u dont agree with their prices. I am sure we could look through your expenses and find more rediculous things that u have wasted far more money on. For the record… I dont sell or distribute norwex or have any connections with company besides just using a few products. And excuse the grammar, typin on the phone is a pain.
Did you seriously just say “soumanilla”? Stop being so skeptical..it really works!
@Nathan S. Hmm… WordPress won’t let me reply to your last comment.
That is the crux of the matter. So far there is no evidence that the Norwex is any more effective than any old microfiber cloth. So why buy a more expensive product that you just can’t go to the store to buy?
Otherwise you could use that same argument for just about any other pseudoscience where the evidence doesn’t support it. For example, I’m too lazy to eat right so I’ll just take a bunch of supplements. But again there is no evidence besides the supplement marketing that routine supplementation is beneficial.
I am not “attacking” the company. I am simply demanding that they back up their claims. Are you saying it’s OK to come out with a statement like: “Laboratory tests have proven that Norwex antibacterial microfiber reduced bacteria by 99.99% in 24 hours!” and not give the study that claim is made in?
And yes, I’m sure I’ve wasted my money on ridiculous things, in fact writing this article made me wonder the same thing, but that again has no bearing on the matter.
The one thing that sold me on Norwex and its claim to be antibacterial is the fact that I had infuenza A this winter. It is higly contagious viral illness.
I was diagnosed by the doctor with a test.
After putting myself in the guest room away from the rest of the family to wait out the illness. Any time I got up to use the restroom , eat, or sit up for awhile, I cleaned up after myself with a norwex Enviro cloth.
No one else in my family got this illness which is almost unheard of. This illness is spread not only by contact but it is airborn. Family members used the same bathroom and ate at the same table as I did.
Yes I am a Norwex consultant. Yet I am one of the most skeptical people out there. There is a you tube video online with ecoli that is quite eye opening. I also find it funny that skeptics put a product down when they have no information that it doesnt work either.
Basically you are making yet another unsubstantiated claim that Norwex products saved your family from getting the flu…
I have a magic rock that protects me from tiger attacks, I’ve never been attacked by tigers so I know it works. Would you like to buy it? You probably think this is an silly example and I am mocking you, but it is really no different in principle from what you just said.
First lets go to the CDC: http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease/spread.htm
From the site: “People with flu can spread it to others up to about 6 feet away. Most experts think that flu viruses are spread mainly by droplets made when people with flu cough, sneeze or talk. These droplets can land in the mouths or noses of people who are nearby or possibly be inhaled into the lungs. Less often, a person might also get flu by touching a surface or object that has flu virus on it and then touching their own mouth or nose.”
Influenza is spread mainly from airborne droplets directly to other people and less often by touching a surface. So you definitely did the right thing by staying away from family members and cleaning up after yourself, but what actual evidence do you have the Norwex cloth actually did anything compared to say a cheap microfiber cloth or even say soap and water? You don’t, Yet you make the claim. That doesn’t sound very skeptical to me.
True story: One of my 5 children had a SEVERE viral infection last year and missed 3 entire months of school. It was very scary because doctors never figured out what it was and it dragged on for months. My daughter is in grade school, so we didn’t feel we could cordon her off from the family for any length of time. As sick as she was, and as proximal as she was to us, none of the rest of our family of 7 caught the illness.
FYI we use cotton rags to clean, and sometimes vinegar if we feel the need.
My wife and I have carefully considered Terese’s Norwex anti-viral testimonial and based on that same logic, we guess the cotton rags are what stopped the spread of our daughter’s illness. Unless maybe it was the vinegar… we simply can’t think of what other factors could possibly have played a part in stopping the virus from spreading.
Thanks be to God for cotton cloths. Or vinegar. Or maybe both.
Norwex isn’t the only way to clean, it is a better way to real clean.
The reason I buy Norwex cloths is simply because they work better than the cheap crap from Walmart. Sure I spend $16.49 on the enviro cloth, but guess what…if it falls apart within 2 years of purchase Norwex will send you a new one. Try going to Walmart and getting a new rag after using it for 2 years. You get what you pay for.
e-cloths – exactly as great as Norwex (I can’t tell any difference whatsoever in looks or performance and neither can my sister – a Norwex consultant) – are $7.99 and have a 300-washings guarantee. At once a week that’s more than… what… about 5 years? e-cloth will send you a new one if it doesn’t last that long. I can get 2 e-cloths for the price of one Norwex cloth, so I don’t buy Norwex cloths from my sister anymore.
Actually, the $12 industrial e-cloth is probably more comparable. It measures 12.5″ x 12.5″, Norwex Enviro cloth is 13″ x 13″. That means the Norwex Enviro cloth is larger by 12.75 square inches.
hehehehe… That’s hilarious on the measuring.
Funny I should stumble onto this blog because I JUST today read a very detailed blog post comparing Norwex and e-cloth microfiber and it included pictures. There’s one where you can clearly see the size difference between the two: it’s negligible. For the price difference I can’t imagine paying 2 x as much. I guess I would need to try them both to see if there’s a marked difference. But from the details I read (complete with pictures) I’d say it’s a tie for functionality. I realize the Norwex cloths contain silver but I’m not convinced that’s such a great thing health-wise, and the environmental impact of adding silver just in terms of physical resources has got to be bigger than for a cloth without silver!
Here’s the post for anyone interested:
http://cleaninup.wordpress.com/2012/04/16/e-cloth-general-purpose-cloth-versus-norwex-enviro-cloth-which-is-better/.
Interesting discussion, and yes – thanks for the introduction to StackExchange!
It seems that the claims are these:
1) Surfaces get contaminated with bacteria.
2) Bacteria can be killed with either
a) household cleaners IF left on the contaminated surface for the appropriate amount of time, or
b) If removed from the surface and exposed for an appropriate amount of time to the silver embedded in Norwex microfiber cloths.
If the silver (+time) is the active ingredient here, then that would argue that Norwex *is* superior to other microfiber clothes that are not embedded with silver. The studies cited on StackExchange indicate that microfiber is fairly good at removing microorganisms from certain surfaces.
Bacteria is not killed on the surface with a silver cloth. It’s the microfiber itself that picks up >99% of common bacteria from hard surfaces with just water. Norwex studies (albeit old and confusing) show this to be the case. Another company’s independent research shows it about their cloth as well: e-cloth®. Their research is done by Silliker, a world-reknowned lab who does food safety testing for McDonald’s, Kraft, Carrefour, etc. and is very credible.
But the silver is completely unnecessary to the process of removing the bacteria. The silver is also secondary as an inhibitor of bacterial growth, because high-quality microfiber dries very quickly and therefore in and of itself is an inhibitor of bacterial growth. All the silver does is speed the killing of the bacteria that will die anyway if you let your cloth dry. That, and it ups the price of your microfiber.
No one has mentioned here that while you can kill 99+% of bacteria with chemical cleaners if you leave them on the surface for long enough, you can never get the whole 100%. Imagine that little leftover bit of bacteria as it realizes the chemical threat to its life and mutates to protect itself.
I’ll take removing bacteria any day over killing it. Safer and healthier. No silver required.
Thank you for this. I see exactly where you are coming from. Helped me decide not to buy this product and look for something else.
I’ve been using the cloths for about a month now, and I’m extremely happy for one reason: They don’t smell bad. You can use them constantly out for 2 weeks and if you rinse them out properly, they don’t smell. Why is it that other washcloths and sponges smell bad a day or two after you use them? Mildew. Just leave a wet sock sitting around and it mildews. It even turns pink after a week or so.
I’m convinced that silver at least kills mildew (certain kinds of mold or fungi), since I’m pretty sure microfiber on its own doesn’t.
I’m also frustrated with the lack of easily found research. I wonder if it’s because most people are satisfied with just trying them out, so the first results that come up when you look online aren’t scientifically backed.
Metallic silver and its compounds have a historically (as in centuries) antimicrobial proven track.The crusaders carried silver chalises to use when drinking water.The black patina on silver is a mixture of silver oxide and other salts which are toxic.To those unfamiliar with this concept,I suggest to look at FDA approved treatment using a prescription drug ointment Silvadene which is used for skin burns to prevent infection and scarring.
some info on silver in toothbrushes, another product that Norwex sells and brags leaves you feeling like you just got your teeth professionally cleaned, without have to use toothpaste. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21207790
This us a really interesting debate. I have been doing Norwex parties for three and a half years and have never run into anyone this skeptical, but do have thousands of happy customers who are saving time and money and eliminating toxic chemicals from their homes.
My wife just brought home some of these “magical rags” tonight. I found this discussion because I, too, am a firm believer in getting the facts. So far, I can’t find any. I find a lot of comments like “they don’t smell” and others about how people speculate as to what they are actually doing, but where is the scientific data?
I’m sorry for those that host these parties and such that feel like people that ask questions are against them. I am just thinking that if this was such a REAL breakthrough, they would have been mass marketed by P&G or J&J or someone. Patents can’t stop science, just the implementation of it, and all it takes is a slightly different weave into the fabric or a simple change and they are around the patent.
I still don’t have any facts after about an hour of searching, just claims from people that sell the product, and a lot of “they don’t smell” comments. Time will tell, but I really doubt that these are the end-all-be-all that people think that they are. As mentioned above, neither is swiping a surface with a chemical either. I would say that they might do some sort of micro-killing, but I sure can’t find anything outside of Norwex and their sales people, or those that they have “sold” the product to, that talk about it. Nothing that can be proven just have blind faith and speculation as to what it does…
So if a large corporation creates and markets a product that validates its worth? Seriously? Consider this… Why would P&G or J&J create a product that didn’t need to be repurchased for 2 years and would essentially cannibalize the rest of their household products line of business? THEY WOULD NEVER DO THAT. Apparently business models were not considered in that part of the logic or argument.
I find it interesting that primarily men, who did not attend any Norwex demonstrations and have not commented on the effectiveness of the actually cleaning properties of these clothes, are the skeptical ones looking for scientific research.
If you ever used a rag and a spray bottle with anything in it, you would instantly know why Norwex is better when you see it. If you have ever spent 10 minutes with a bottle of windex, oven cleaner or a mop, you will instantly know why Norwex is better. The hype about germs, flu virus, etc is just that, hype and is designed by P&G and J&J so that you buy their product because you think you are doing something good for your family’s health. Anyone who has done any real research into cleaning (on the internet, or with any products) knows the only cleaning agent you actually need is vinegar, and may be baking soda. The only thing you are doing for your family by buying these products is causing asthma, cancer and reproductive issues. If you spent 5 minutes on http://www.ewg.org, you would know that. You certainly don’t need a double blind study or any more time with an internet connection.
Maybe you should pick up an envirorag and start cleaning.
To be honest Mopy, I’ve pretty much lost interest in this topic, but in the case of your ravings, I’ll make an exception.
1) You’re changing the topic, not providing evidence. We’re not talking about large companies, we are talking about Norwex. So what other businesses do is IRRELEVANT to the conversation. So you just wasted over 50% of your typing.
2) It is irrelevant to the conversion, but since you brought up other companies business models, what is Norwex’s business model?
3) Let’s continue with your Ad Hominem attack against men. I’ll save you from looking it up on the internet — it means you are attacking the person and not the argument. In one fell swoop, you denigrate men and insult the intelligent skeptical women who write for this site (and read it).
4) Finally you really show your ignorance by saying “You certainly don’t need a double blind study…” If you understood anything at all about science you’d see why this is so laughable. It’s obvious that you’ve wasted all you time “researching into cleaning on the internet”, because you don’t have the tools to filter good science from bad. You don’t seem to understand that a demonstration is not unbiased and place it higher than say…a double blind study.
Thank you Mopy for such an enjoyable comment.
Thank you thank you. Apparently, your ego has gotten the better of you again. I was replying to another comment, not you. Again, the proof is in the pudding. Get a rag and get to work.
The reason for lack of odor on silver treated rags is their inhibition
of bacterial growth,most bacterias,harmful as in Escherichia Coli aka
ecoli will break down urea which is present in human sweat,urine into ammonia and carbon dioxide,hence “the smell”,all bacteria will
produce some sort of odor.Most water quality tests include testing for ammonia which is screening for presence of contaminating bacteria including Cholera,Typhoid etc.
Why would P&G or J&J make a product like this? Especially one that contains silver? I cant even wrap my mond around why. That would tell the masses they wouldnt have to buy all of the cleaning products those 2 companies alone out of business. ( buy our cloths containing silver and you wont have to buy the chemicals from us any more ) I dont think they would have any interest in that.
How ever many of the compainies do make microfiber cloths of all types.
You can look at microfiber cloths from several com panies and see with the nakes eye the difference in quality. If you get down to it, it is the quality that is the difference.
There are different levels of quality in everything from cars to sheets for your bed. So in the end it is up to the consumer to choose what they want. want to spend 400 plus a year on cleaning supplies? or less then 100?
I have used at least three brands of microfiber cleaning cloths in the past and have come to a few conclusions. I don’t have any official scientific data on which to base my conclusions, but I can share personal experience. The Norwex cloths are thicker and more densely woven which lifts dirt with much less effort than the other 2 brands and my other cotton cleaning cloths. Cleaning countertops, windows, and the car is less of a chore. I bought the two Norwex cloths I own from a family member who had a party. I was skeptical, but am now planning to buy a few more.
I have not found enough research to be sold on their antibacterial properties, but find that they work great with either water or gentle soap to clean most everything. I won’t clean up contaminated surfaces without disinfecting and washing the cloths until I have more concrete evidence. I will continue to use them for most everything else.
Bacteria won’t grow on surfaces if you remove the medium (food). To clean my counters I use a dishrag with hot soapy water, let it sit a minute and clean it off and rinse it. When there is nothing for germs to eat they don’t reproduce. I soak my rags in a little bleach water. Cheap and easy.
I’m a new Norwex consultant, so I’ll just share what I know from experience and Norwex training info. Like some people have said, the microfiber picks up the bacteria, micro-organisms, ect. It’s then rinsed down the drain, and whatever is left in the cloth is smothered by the silver while it dries. Microfiber is like a hair split 6 times, whereas Norwex microfiber is like a hair split 200 times (it was 100, but further research released this month at a Norwex conference revealed 200), making Norwex superior to what you’d buy in the stores. My aunt has an enviro cloth from 5 years ago, and it’s still going strong! Have you looked at the chicken test videos on youtube? We use DHEC swabs to test the counter top before cleaning chicken residue and after wiping, it comes back clean. I actually use a 3rd swab to test the transfer of bacteria when I use the chicken-y enviro cloth to wipe a new spot on the counter, and it doesn’t transfer; the swab comes out clean. Impressive for cleaning, but I’m most impressed with the time I’m saving cleaning, and the health benefits of not using toxic chemicals in my house.
e-cloth is also split 200 times and costs less than half of what a Norwex cloth costs. e-cloth publishes their research, while Norwex does not. The swab test is done on protein. It’s a fair jump to say that bacteria will react in the same manner as protein – with no published research to prove that this is so.
Thank you Stephanie for your comment. I have found your comment to be the most informative and without an argument. I recently purchased an enviro cloth, the window cloth and the all purpose dishcloth. I am extremely surprised at how well they clean and shine my window, appliances and eliminate dried on food in an instant. I love the fact that I am not breathing any chemicals that always made me feel sick. My family owns a distillery and I do all the cleaning. We are very careful about the cleaning agents we use. I’m thrilled to have been introduced to Norwex products. My son is a chemist and microbiologist and we will be doing our own testing. In the meantime my hardwood floors are clean, the furniture is dust free, my windows and mirrors shine and my shower door sparkles. I love when I rinse a cloth the dust and hair comes right out without a fight.
Thanks Cynthia! Please keep me updated on what you and your son find out with any further testing you do! I tried to give information without being pushy or misleading. I’m not a confrontational person like some other responses on here, but it’s a product I believe does what it’s supposed to. I think many people are too quick to overlook the toxic chemicals they bring into their house and the risk they put themselves at, yet skeptical about a greener way to clean. I’m so happy to hear that you’re using Norwex and loving it! Keep it going
“Antibac refers to those products that contain an antibacterial agent for self-cleansing purposes only. The agent is solely designed to inhibit bacterial odor, mold, and/or growth within the product.” quoted verbadim from the Norwex catalog. When used wet the enviro cloth does remove protein from a surface. With 1 enviro cloth + 1 polishing cloth + water I can clean my windows, doors, screens, counters, black appliances, etc. to gleaming in less time than it takes to fill a bucket with soapy water, gather my window sponge and squeege only to do a job that was mediocre. I am a Norwex consultant, albiet new at the job so finding the truth is important, as wonderful as these clothes are, I don’t want to deceive my clients, that is really unnecessary. The silver, which is embedded in the fiber is the key difference. So, let me dig further, like the question of EPA and FDA approval which I have seen used by various websites.
so what proof do you have that ANY cleaner out there on the market is safe for you and the environment, cleans and kills virus, bacteria and fugus and saves you money!?!? do you do research for 409, mr. clean? how do you know they work? because the commercial tells you so! unless you are disinfecting everyday after every person who touches every surface of your house…you are exposed to germs. norwex allows you to do your daily/weekly/monthly cleaner without exposing yourself to harsh chemicals, saving you money and time while cleaning! norwex has been used for many years in Europe and not so long in the US because we were brought up that clean has to SMELL potent!
d jones: I find it interesting that you didn’t choose to identify yourself as a Norwex consultant.
Despite your attempts at misdirection…(officer, everyone else was speeding so why are you bothering me?) and your appeal to popularity and antiquity…(many people have been doing this for years,) you’ve really added nothing to the conversation other than trying to dilute the meaningful comments.
so what proof do you have that other cleaners work?
You seem to be missing the point so let me drive it home with a hammer. You are using the common tactic of shifting the focus of the discussion to something else to avoid the hard questions. Your question is irrelevant to the discussion of whether Norwex’s claims are valid. Asking me to keep answering it is further proof that you have nothing relevant to contribute.
ok…captain defensive, no need to hammer anything, although it is probably the only thing you can hammer…..my point is that you can be skeptical….but what makes you not skeptical about other products? so keep avoiding questions and get your panties in a bunch. the US does a lot of “prove your self” with products and just like every other company out there studies are propitiatory info. and i didnt know that i had to give you a bio to leave a comment.
Dear Norwex,
Could you please clear up a question for me, is the antibac microfiber on the list of FDA and EPA approved products? I have a potential customer that needs this confirmation, she runs a day care and is scrutinized regularly by the government. I find conflicting information in regard to this issue.
Thanks,
Diane Voight
Good Afternoon Diane,
Norwex products do not have the necessary documentation for public places under government jurisdiction since we are a home party business. However private businesses that don’t require approval by the government are using Norwex products in their cleaning.
zing!
I’m glad I found this discussion. I hate home-party based businesses because they prey on people who are desperate to make a little income with little time (typically housewives). They’re kind of pyramid-schemey, no?
Anyway to avoid detracting from the conversation further, I just wanted to thank Benjamen Johnson for his intelligent investigation. You and other commenters here have convinced me to avoid my friend’s Norwex obsession and parties. Norwex clearly misses the legitimacy mark several times over (see email conversation above) and I won’t be patronizing them.
Please excuse me commenting on this thread but not at all related to the core of the subject matter. I came across this thread and quite honestly didn’t see any reason to participate until the comment regarding “home based party businesses”. I think network marketing is quite possibly one of the most misunderstood business models, but that is changing with research and articles from economists like Paul Zane Pilzer, who is specifically predicting a new wave of millionaires emerging from network marketing (& health and wellness) as well as this business model being taught at the university level. Not only that, but investors such as Warren Buffet are saying network marketing companies are some of his best investments to date. One last thing to think about as you might believe the industry preys on housewives is that only 6% of American women make more than 100,000 and of that 6%- 80% of those women are involved in network marketing. I too, was skeptical in the past.. so I can completely understand and am not personally offended in anyway. But, I do know it is one of the most misunderstood business models. Check out “The Flip Flop CEO” of Robert Kyosoki’s “Business of the 21st Century”- your opinions may change if you care to learn more.
My apologies to Mr. Johnson for taking this response away from his original topic, but I wanted to address the widely held misconceptions that the poster “threemommygos” perpetuates above.
Pyramid schemes are illegal and involve investments in others’ future investments. (This is a link to the SEC’s information page: http://www.sec.gov/answers/pyramid.htm) Legitimate home-party/direct sales businesses involve investing in products and a business entity. The statement “I hate home-party based businesses because they prey on people who are desperate to make a little income with little time (typically housewives)” shows a complete lack of understanding of the industry. People of all walks of life, all over the planet, choose (are *not* chased down and forced into it as “prey”) direct sales for a variety of reasons that are their own concern. If they enter the business without really understanding it, it’s their own fault.
Whether or not they’re successful depends on their understanding of what they’re choosing to do, their efforts, and their long-term commitment. Even with great intentions and efforts, businesses fail — it’s a fact of life. Legitimate direct sales companies aren’t “get-rich-quick” opportunities but long-term, viable businesses. People should do their homework before joining them, just as they would when considering opening any business of their own. Some direct sales companies aren’t as ethical as others, but that is not a trait limited to direct sales, as any glance at a daily newspaper’s business pages cant attest.
Whether you support someone in a direct sales business or not is your choice, as it is when you decide to buy from one brick-&-mortar store or another, or choose one location of a Starbucks or UPS franchise over another. If a friend had put in tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars to open a restaurant or store, would you wish the worst for her, or would you wish her well? Maybe you won’t dine or shop there, but you probably wouldn’t trash talk her goals or her entire industry.
Just because some direct sales owners might be inept at running their business, or make others uncomfortable by being pushy or clumsy in their efforts, doesn’t mean the industry as a whole is illegitimate.
Norwex is about CHEMICAL FREE cleaning and personal care.
I am a clinical microbiologist and just attended my first Norwex party tonight. I had no idea what I was getting myself into but about 5 minutes into the talk I could barely contain my skepticism. I kept quiet while listening to the claims and watched as the host smeared the raw chicken on her counter and then used the “protein swab” to check to see if it was still there. Bottom line, if I tried to use these rags at work in my lab I would be fired. If silver impregnated rags are so great at disinfecting, why aren’t hospitals around the country using them to terminally clean patient rooms? Think of the money and man power they could save.
I am in daily contact with MRSA, VRE, ESBL’s, Cdiff and Norovirus. We use bleach and soap and water and pure ethanol to disinfect. Nothing kills bacteria, viruses, mold and yeasts better than plain old soap and water; bleach is a close second. It takes 10 virus particles to get a Norovirus infection and there are aproximately 1 billion virus particles that can fit on the head of a pin. Soap and water is 100% effective against Cdiff, alcohol is not. I don’t doubt that these rags are nice at getting rid of dirt but please, please, don’t think you can swipe and go and be done. I was appalled that the host was telling these other mothers that they could clean their toilets with the rags and then turn around and wipe down their kitchen counters or vice versa. Yes, they are chemicals but when it comes to getting rid of germs and if you’ve ever had Norovirus you know you want to make sure they are dead! Using a 10% bleach solution and wiping the counters will not kill you, sever dehydration and kidney failure from Salmonellosis will.
Angela du, I know this is an old thread, but I’m just curious about what type of soap you refer to that is 100% effective. I
Angela, thank you so much for this info!…after all of the posts I have weeded through, this is the mother lode. I attended my first party last night, and am as skeptical as can be; I am in the medical field, and need data. I appreciate the facts from a microbiology expert…I was dumbfounded by the claims of toilet-then-bathroom/kitchen counter cleaning with only a rinse. Having experienced the joys of Norovirus, no thank you. I think the products look fine and well made, but I would only use them for surfaces other than kitchen and bathroom. Thank you again!
Thank you Angela. My thoughts exactly. As a healthcare provider, we need to think infection control. This sums up the entire conversation. Case closed for me.
FYI:
http://www.epa.gov/region9/waste/p2/projects/hospital/mops.pdf
Because of superbugs, immune to and created by chemicals, hospital patients were dying. Hence, they turned to fiber technology and that has played an important role in cleaning. The few bacteria left behind don’t mutate into superbugs.
I don’t understand the constant criticism of Norwex and its products.
“I don’t understand the constant criticism of Norwex and its products.”
Very simple Diane, they make extraordinary claims about their products and don’t provide any evidence to back it up other than some party tricks that fool people who aren’t educated enough to understand why they are inadequate proof.
Nice try on the link you provided, did you even read the entire thing? You’re using it as evidence that they turned to microfiber to get rid of chemicals. They didn’t replace the regular mop heads with microfiber ones and stop using cleaning products, they used less cleaning products because the microfiber cloths performed better — a point which nobody is arguing against here.
They were also able to reduce cross contamination. They used a separate microfiber mop head in each room rather than re-using the same one, which eliminated cross contamination. The reason they we’re able to do this was because the microfiber mop heads can be washed 10 times more than the normal mop heads (although they had to find different launderer)
Finally, I may be wrong, but think you are talking about anti-bioitic resistance, not resistance to cleaning solutions. By using the same logic (not that I’m saying it’s correct) why is silver any different, by exposing “bugs” to silver aren’t we creating super bugs too?
Intertek, a globally recognized testing facility, conducts the majority of Norwex laboratory testing. You can learn more about Intertek at http://www.intertek.com.
How Silver Ions Inactivate Bacteria:
Norwex antibacterial silver microfiber uses active silver ions (AG+). According to ISO testing, silver inactivate the bacteria cells. This is done in three ways:
1. Breakdown of a cell’s life supporting functions by inhibiting the transmembrane transport thereby starving the bacterium
2. Inactivation of intracellular enzymes that “digest the food”
3. Damage the bacterium cell’s DNA so that it cannot reproduce
Thank you for the information about Intertek, that’s one more piece of information that’s slowly leaking out of this discussion that hasn’t been in the public eye. That said I’m a little confused to which comment your response is aimed, which is not necessarily your fault. It seems that once you get past a certain number of indents, WordPress sometimes won’t let you reply unless you are logged in.
I don’t think anybody in this particular comment thread (or the whole article) is questioning silver as an anti-bacterial agent. I think the main point of contention with the silver is that Norwex’s and some of their representatives are heavily implying if not stating outright that you don’t need to use any other cleaning agents, just their cloth and water. Quote direct from the website “Cleaning with water only produces a healthy outcome for us and the environment.” Ref: http://www.norwex.com/norwex.php?lng=7&cnt=223 third paragraph
At best the silver in the cloth can inhibit the growth of bacteria on the cloth after it has been used, not kill bacteria on another surface just by a quick contact. Yes microfiber does a more thorough job just removing material, but is Norwex’s cloth doing a better job than any other microfiber cloth, or good old household cleaners (used correctly) including simple soap and water (the non-antibacterial kind)
Why would you use a chemical if you could achieve the same cleaning results with a microfiber cloth and water? Microfiber technology isn’t exclusive to Norwex, they just took it to another level by manufacturing a better product. As you said ” At best the silver in the cloth can inhibit the growth of bacteria on the cloth after it has been used”. We are in total agreement. It is the millions of micro fibers that pull the germs up into the cloth where the silver does its thing. Most bacteria is harmless. Antibacterial soaps are overused and probably unnecessary in most households. Have you ever tested microfiber and its ability to remove. . . say protein residue? By the way, Norwex sells enzyme products for cleaning, also laundry and dish soap, etc. Obviously, not all cleaning situations are solved with water and a Norwex Enviro Cloth.
I have looked over several of the comments about the norwex products. I am a consultant, and in my party presentations, I use bacteria testers. I wipe glass area with butter, clean with dampened enviro cloth and polish with polishing cloth. I then take a piece of raw chicken (warning of high bacteria content on any chicken or poultry package) wipe with tester which turns dark purple showing high bacteria content. With same enviro cloth with butter,(not rinsing it) I wipe chicken area off, Polish with polish cloth, wipe with another tester which shows green meaning there is no bacteria. I’m wondering if other types of cloths and water can pass this test. I accidently left the chicken bacteria infested cloth shut up in a zip lock bag for a week and there was absolutely no oder when I opened it up.
Also, I have been using the Norwex tooth brush and my check up after six months, (using the brush for only three months) which the dental hygentist is alway bugging me about plaque build up was very good. She wanted to know what I was using.
I’m happy with what I see.
Joan you’re wrong about the swabs being ‘bacteria testers’ and wrong in saying that they show bacteria content. They show PROTEIN content. There is a presumption that if the cloths can remove protein, they can remove bacteria. But this is not necessarily the case. Biochemists will tell you that protein and bacteria are not one and the same, and that you shouldn’t be telling people they are, because as the perceived ‘expert’ you should know what you’re talking about, and obviously you don’t. It’s exactly this kind of misleading information that lead Norwex to require the shutdown of all independent consultant websites: people were writing things like what you just wrote – things that are NOT accurate and can lead to tremendous misunderstanding and therefore liability on Norwex’s part. Get your facts straight.
I have so much more to say but time allows only this comment for now, please wmys, get YOUR facts straight. As an independent consultant, my Norwex website is up and running.
I have been following this thread with interest for ages. As a former Norwex consultant who was around from near the beginning of when Norwex started, up until Norwex demanded the shut-down of independently owned websites not that long ago (grrr), I wanted to comment about the swabs. If you Google those swabs and read what they do, in fact they do test for the removal of protein rather than the removal of bacteria. I’m not a scientist but I tend to agree with wmys that using the swabs to show people how the surface is bacteria-free by swabbing it before and after rubbing chicken (or whatever) on it is actually misleading. People see the green swab and are lead to believe that it’s showing that all the bacteria is gone, when what it’s actually showing is that the protein is gone. It is entirely possible that some bacteria remains on the surface, depending on the type of bacteria. I would love a biochemist-type to chime in on this.
Area7, not sure what you mean by “independent consultant website” being shut down, here is my Norwex site: http://www.dianevoight.norwex.biz/ and here is the site where you can read about the swabs: http://www.hygiena.net/proclean.html
It plainly says in the hydiena site that the swabs are used to check for cleanliness etc. If protein is removed there isn’t anything left to morf into bacteria. And again, 95% of bacteria is not harmful. I just cleaned my kitchen counters, appliances, windows & floor with water and Norwex microfiber. Not only did it take a fraction of the pre-norwex cleaning time, things sparkle like never before, I didn’t use a single paper towel or any container filled with a chemical. Seriously people, go to my website, order some Norwex and do your own independent testing.
I’m really glad to see a thoughtful argument (done nicely by the man originally posting this), where real questions are being asked.
I just wanted to leave a quick comment letting you know that this discussion actually DID effectively change my mind that my Norwex rags aren’t effectively cleaning my house in the way they were marketed to me. It is simply frustrating to have so many of these consultants arguing that they KNOW that the product works when in fact FAITH and KNOWLEDGE are two completely different arena’s. Having faith because seeing is believing etc etc etc is just plain silly. We now know, as this topic clearly shows, that there is more than the eye can see. So saying that you KNOW these work because you can SEE it is the craziest assumption to come to! Bacteria can’t be seen (DUH) so who cares how clean your counter looks? We know that doesn’t prove anything.
The lack of scientific data speaks louder than any consultant.
If it could be proved scientifically as they state, it would be done. Simple as that.
Oh, the cloths do work. Norwex, e-cloth, Enjo, BlueWonder. There is significant amount of research to show that high quality microfiber indeed picks up more than 99% of bacteria. e-clloth, for example, has info. here from the research conducted by Sillikers labs: http://www.buyecloth.com/download/e_cloth_science.pdf. This is really not in question.
What IS in question is the claims made around the swabs proving bacteria removal when in fact they are removing protein, and the claims made by uninformed Norwex sellers saying that because cross-contamination is negligible, you can wipe your baby’s bottom and then clean the kitchen counters with the same cloth.
The bottom line is that any time we can use a cloth and water rather than chemicals, we are helping humanity on a number of levels. This doesn’t mean we should never use chemicals for any cleaning jobs. For example, I used to use Norwex toilet cleaner because it contained triclosan, which is found in anti-bacterial soaps and the least harmful of the bacteria-killers. Once Norwex decided to manufacture without triclosan, in my opinion the benefit was gone, so I moved to another more mainstream cleaner for that job.
But if I CAN clean without chemicals, I do. I sell e-cloth, so those are the cloths I use for anything that requires wiping or polishing. But for example, as much as an Ajax addict as I was, I made the move to Norwex Cleaning Paste ($$$$) and Shaklee Scour Off ($) – both made with marble chalk, I think – and both AMAZING. I also use Norwex DeScaler for showers, which is an enzyme-based product that works a zillion times better than CLR or Limeaway. Even if we all reduce the number of chemicals we use a LITTLE bit… the cumulative effect is enormous. It’s about common sense.
Kerry- i too see the upside to using norwex for some of my cleaning needs. I just finished reading the information you provided as “proof” that the cloths work as they say it does. One page? Have you read a peer reviewed journal? That is nothing close to the results that one would need to read in order to PROVE that the cloths in fact work the way they brag to. Again, this site does the exact same thing as Norwex does, except that they are backed by a company that works for a lot of other companies. I will also mention that just because the company is well known and used among others in the industry doesn’t in fact make it true. That is a simple and completely irrelevant fact that tricks you into believing their professional opinion in sound. I am skeptical & still completely unconvinced that this proves anything whatsoever. Please provide information that isn’t a mere summary of a study. Real evidence comes in the form of a true study, not the tiny details that they pull out and make assumptions from to toss some propaganda at you. Be truly informed not gullible guys. This is, in fact, your health at stake and you are being either lied to or in the least, deceived to believe that there is far more evidence backing these products than there truly is.
This is my last post, time is precious and totally wasted on this blog. I have covered the debate up one side and down the other to help skeptics understand Norwex, and the same issues are repeated over and over. Call customer service at Norwex, 877-766-7939, ask for the facts behind their products. . . then tell them how they are deceiving and endangering the public. Perhaps a false claims suite could be brought against them, have a good life, mine will be better with Norwex.
Diane,
As to your clear confusion about independent websites: what Area7 means is the private ownership and operation of your own website where you can design it how you want, write what you want, sell products, and most importantly optimize your website for search so customers can find you online. The new Norwex-provided websites are not editable or changeable by consultants and because they live at subdomains of norwex.biz, they are not actual websites in their own right. They are essentially invisible in search. Try Googling “Diane Voight Norwex” to see what I mean, I got to page 7 of Google before I gave up looking for your Norwex site (interestingly, Minnesota Skeptics is VERY well indexed for the term “Diane Voight Norwex” – way to go, Skeptics guy… very impressive results). I really don’t want to get into the details because it’s hijacking this thread, but if you actually care to learn about this stuff, Google some terms like “SEO on a subdomain website).” You will see that subdomain websites only lend optimization the the actual top-level domain, which is Norwex.biz. All the benefit to Norwex, virtually none to you.
As to the research:
1. Diane: It says as plain as day on the site you listed above: “PRO-Clean detects protein residues left on a surface after cleaning.” By cleanliness they are referring to absence of protein, not the absence of bacteria. When you say that 5% bacteria remaining on a surface is okay… I guess that depends on the type of bacteria. Protein does not “morf” into bacteria, as you say.
2. Amanda: You’re tight that what’s published is very basic and not convincing to the critical eye. There is real research on both Norwex and e-cloth. I used to sell Norwex in the days where they still published it, and I believe I still have it. I can send you what I have if you contact me privately through my site. I’m not actually sure why Norwex no longer makes it public. It could be that it’s hard for the layperson to interpret and in a party plan environment people just don’t care that much. Just speculation.
You’re *right… not tight! LOL
Mr. skepticism kind of discussed the studies that he was able to find, which were the drop stuff wipe it up studies.. is there more?? I absolutely would enjoy reading the information if you still have it. Where do i need to go to contact you? When I click your name it takes me to ecloth.
Thank you for offering the information to me.
Contact Norwex for their study results, 877-766-7939.
Amanda Mae – yes – you can contact me through my e-cloth site and I will send you everything I can find in my archived files.
Kerry-
I would respond on your site but my computer will not allow me to open it calling it a phishing site where a person tries to replicate a site in order to trick you into getting your personal information. Thanks, but I’d rather not contact you on that site. Thanks.
That has to be something about this Skeptics site and the way it interprets outbound links. The direct link is http://www.buyecloth.com. Type it into your browser directly. You can also contact me through http://www.whomadeyoursite.com.
Thanks…everyone. I attended a party hosted by someone who was a new consultant. We both have the same health issue and belong to a the same support group.
I was a skeptic going in. I mainly went just to support her. When I saw the chicken test I thought maybe there was something to this. We were told by the Norwex consultant that you could wash your toilet and then wipe down your kitchen no problem. The silver in the cloth would kill everything making it safe to use again. She sited some studies by the company but didn’t produce anything written. She couldn’t really explain the silver thread either, but I went with it.
Like many with our health issue I am sensitive to strong chemicals. After attending the meeting I considered supporting a fundraiser for our non-profit. Thanks to this thread I am not.
I wanted to give Norwex as a gift to a couple of people. I didn’t have the catalogs or anything from Norwex explaining the product so I went looking on their website. I especially wanted something about the anti-bac since that is what I think sets it apart from other cleaners/cloths and why I was sold on it, and wanted to give it as a gift. I was shocked when I went looking for detailed info on the “anti-bac” and found that it does not kill bacteria etc. on the surface but only the product itself. That did for me. I was done with Norwex. And I’m not giving as a gift. I’ll probably just give it to my maid to use as regular cloths. I won’t mention the anti-bac. If they really work better then she’ll like them. If not, they’ll be tossed like the terrycloth towels & rags she currently uses then discards when they get worn out.
It’s really scary how easily these consultants are either misunderstanding or misrepresenting (not intentionally) the properties of this product. If I had held our fundraiser and sold to all our members as a product that is safe for us b/c we don’t have to use any chemicals and it will keep our homes germ free and people bought under that guise, there would certainly be hell to pay if someone did get sick b/c they bought and used it and got sick. Because we are chronically ill, many of us have compromised immune systems. Ugh! I shiver at the thought. The company would definitely have a lawsuit. There was real potential there. I think they need to be made aware of the potential risks for people who are sick and sensitive to chemicals to buy this product thinking they are getting something they are not.
By the way, my consultants pediatrician was there. She didn’t by any of the products.
Thanks again everyone who posted here. You’ve really helped me.
Sorry that you are so sceptical with the Norwex products. The claims that the microfinber cloths are better than others has much truth to it. the regular microfiber cloths are set to government standards and most of them are like a human hair split 6 times. Norwex cloths are a human hair split 200 times. making it more absorbent, and able to take a better static charge to help in picking up dust lint and dirt.
The silver claims in the cloth are there imbeded in the cloth to kill bacteria that your cleaning cloth picks up. If the cloth is cleaned properly washed with no bleach and no dryer sheets or Downy. ( these products make the silver inifective) Your cloth will work killing bacteria for up to 9 years.
Ask around to people that you may know in the medical industry. Silver is used to help heal. If you burn yourself you will be given an ointment with silver in it. When babies are born drops with silver in it are put in their eyes. Many times when you have surgery Silver is used at the incision site. These are not things I am making up.
If you truley have a chronoc illness I would think you would be willing to at least try these. Im sure your consultant would be willing to take your products back if you decide to toss them.
There are many in the medical feild that are Norwex consultants. Not to make money but to use a good product.
I have a cronic illness and have problems with many chemicals. I love the Norwex products. Thats just my honest opinion.
Do you know *why* silver ointment was put in babies’ eyes after birth? To protect their eyes from STDs like chlamydia and herpes. They don’t do it for cesarean births, since babies would not be exposed during that delivery method. And it burns their eyes, which is why most states have stopped using it and now use erythromycin. It’s an unnecessary practice for babies born to women without those diseases.
http://www.drfeder.com/index.php?page=articles&action=viewArticle&articleID=57
Everything I am hearing consultants on here say is that the stuff in the cloth will be killed, but nothing about killing anything on the surface. This is about taking something dirty and depositing the bacteria onto a new surface, the way typical sponges do when they sit wet on a counter, grow germs, and then are used to wipe off a surface. Since the toilet example has been used, I’d love to see someone wipe off the toilet in any house with men (yes, I’m going there) using one of these cloths, then use the same cloth to wipe off their counter, and then shine a blacklight on the counter. Blacklight reveals urine.
I have used general microfiber cloths, and when they are wet, they leave some water behind. I have a hard time believing that a cloth that has collected urine, been rinsed, rewetted, and wiped on a counter would not transfer urine to the next surface, since rinsing is not a perfect cleaning process itself.
Let me know when someone has a blacklight Norwex party, and I’ll make sure to show up wearing lots of neon colors and white. But I won’t be eating off their kitchen counters.
“Silver is used to help heal… When babies are born drops with silver in it are put in their eyes… Many times when you have surgery Silver is used at the incision site.”…
This is EXACTLY why Norwex corporate needs to be monitoring this kind of website. Norwex consultants like Terese LaPree are painting all functions of silver with the same brush, and implying therein that the microsilver thread in Norwex cloths heals in the same way as the colloidal silver does in Bandaids.
This is a serious fallacy that shows either ignorance or oblivion. Possibly both. It’s as much of a leap as saying that because Chihuahuas bark a lot, that means all dogs bark a lot. It’s as much of a leap as saying that a because a protein swab test shows removal of bacteria, that proves the absence of bacteria.
I really wonder what’s up with Norwex as a company. The across-the-board misunderstandings and misrepresentations by their consultants about the function of silver in their cloths is eventually going to lead to a lawsuit by some interest group. Consultants make outrageous claims based on pure ignorance – or worse – pure drive to chase the dollar. What is Norwex doing to educate its sellers, and to stem this flow of saying whatever it takes to make the sale?
All testing for antibacterial efficacy in Norwex microfiber products is completed using the International Standards Organization’s (ISO) standard 20743:2007(E) to test its microfiber cloths. ISO is the recognized standardized testing method to determine the antibacterial activity of finished textile products. In the case of Norwex microfiber cloths, this test is used to evaluate the products’ ability to clean itself of bacteria, mold and odors.
This determines how well an antibacterial fabric inhibits growth of bacteria compared to a non-antibacterial fabric within the actual cloth. Both fabrics are exposed to bacteria over the same amount of hours, typically 24, and the bacteria is counted again in both the normal and the antibacterial fabric after 24 hours.
Intertek, a globally recognized testing facility, conducts the majority of Norwex laboratory testing. You can learn more about Intertek at http://www.intertek.com.
How Silver Ions Inactivate Bacteria:
Norwex antibacterial silver microfiber uses active silver ions (AG+). According to ISO testing, silver inactivate the bacteria cells. This is done in three ways:
1. Breakdown of a cell’s life supporting functions by inhibiting the transmembrane transport thereby starving the bacterium
2. Inactivation of intracellular enzymes that “digest the food”
3. Damage the bacterium cell’s DNA so that it cannot reproduce
interested to know, did you try them and do comparison test with ordinary microfiber cloths? thinking of trying them but they arent cheap. if regular microfiber are just as good i would stick withthem. more interested in cleaning ability than germ killing ability.
Kathy, check out e-cloth as a competitive product to Norwex. It’s fantastic (although I sell it, so I’m a little biased) and less than half the price of Norwex. The one thing Norwex has that e-cloth doesn’t is their amazing enzyme products that work like nobody’s business.
You can read very detailed and honest reviews of Norwex vs e-cloth at http://cleaninup.wordpress.com (not my site). The blogger is a former Norwex consultant who now sells e-cloth (so – my competitor, I guess, but she’s a great read nonetheless).
Kathy do you provide a try it before you buy it? I am a Norwex consultant and do offer it. I own a cleaning business and was able to cut my prices in half because of Norwex
@Diane Voight: This research sounds great – where can I read it?
I am a Norwex consultant, this information was taken verbatim off the Norwex site for consultant use. Is there anything else I can answer in particular?
@Diane Voight – Where is the actual research that I can read? The studies, I mean? I have done a Google search and I can’t find a single thing. Generally speaking when a company sells a product based on claims about it that are supported by research, the actual research available in addition to the “elevator speech” about the research. Does Norwex make research reports available to consultants? To the public? If not, why not?
Yes! Dianne, can you please provide a copy of Norwex’s research for review? You seem to be the only one who knows about it and since you appear to be a seller of the product, you must have access to it. Let’s have a look!
I would like to remind people that most commercial cleaning products are not food grade, Meaning you must rinse the surface again to remove the residue left by the product be fore it comes in contact with any food. Commercial disinfecting wipes have the instructions right on the label and those “quick clean ups” potentially turn into a long process. I would rather clean with norwex, than expose my family to chemical residue over and over. (If I know I have touched, or may have touched, a surface with raw meat or it’s juice I would wash the contaminent with soap and water, then wipe away the residue with my Norwex enviro cloth.
Bethany I’d like you to elaborate on your comment. You say most products are not food grade, then you give an example of a product that isn’t made specifically for use in the kitchen. I looked at other cleaners and saw no such warnings (I did verify that you are correct about the wipes though).
I’m not saying you are incorrect, but you only give the one example and make a claim about most commercial cleaning products. Are people using “most” commercial cleaning products on their counters or are they using products intended for cleaning counters (for instance I wouldn’t use toilet duck on my counters, and would assume it would probably need to be rinsed first if I did). What’s your source for this “most?” Common wisdom, product labels, studies, propaganda put out by companies trying to sell alternatives?
Food grade means safely ingestible. The household cleaning products we can buy in grocery stores are not food-grade. If you are in doubt, contact the manufacturers and ask. I did a Google search for ‘food grade cleaner’ and came up with very few, and not ones I have ever heard of. The ones I found were for use in commercial kitchens, as Bethany said.
Because manufacturers are not required by law to state the ingredients in their cleaners, they don’t. Even “green” cleaners are replete with unsafe compounds, and some of them actually make the EWG Cleaning “Hall of Shame.”
For example: Simple Green Concentrated All-Purpose Cleaner claims to be “non-toxic” but contains 2-butoxyethanol, a solvent absorbed through the skin that irritates eyes and may damage red blood cells. This concentrated product is sold in a ready-to-use spray bottle despite instructions to dilute, even for heavy cleaning.
Google “cleaning hall of shame” for some eye-opening reading.
The instructions on these products are to spray onto the surface, wait 10 minutes (TEN!) and then wipe thoroughly. The wait is the time it takes to kill bacteria. If you’re spraying and not waiting 10 minutes, you are lulling yourself into a false sense of security about what the sprays are actually doing.
Like Bethany, I would much rather use a high-quality microfiber cloth than a chemical spray, especially in my kitchen.
As a follow-up, check out the EWG website. Tons of info. on there about how your favorite cleaning products stack up in terms of safety. They have a pdf guide that you can pay $5 for, but when I Googled ‘cleaning hall of shame’ the pdf came up first on the list. There is also a section called ‘Weak Regulations’ which explains the lack of governance over ingredient disclosure and why consumers should be very diligent: http://www.ewg.org/guides/cleaners/content/weak_regulation
To the person above who says: “Kathy do you provide a try it before you buy it? I am a Norwex consultant and do offer it. I own a cleaning business and was able to cut my prices in half because of Norwex”:
This is a fundamental problems with Norwex. You are able to offer a try-before-you-buy because your market is local. Your market is local because Norwex is a party plan company. This means there are a bunch of payout levels in the MLM structure. This means your product prices are insanely high (to be able to cover those payouts).
There’s another company selling the same cleaning cloths for less than half the price of Norwex’s. My wife and I have tried them both and they are – literally – identically fantastic. You get Norwex at a consultant rate, but your customers don’t. So for them to be able to reduce their cleaning costs it would make a lot more sense for them to buy from your competitor who’s direct-to-customer rather than MLM. And actually, even with your Norwex discount (I think 35-40%), your price is STILL higher than your competitor. Maybe you should be buying their cloths instead of your own! LOL
What is the name of the company selling microfiber that is comparable to Norwex, but cheaper?
To Diane Voight: Where is this research you keep alluding to? Like others here, I would dearly love the read it. I find it very odd that you keep popping into the conversation to point out this research as a way to refute doubters’ comments, but when asked to produce it, you don’t. Very odd indeed. If you can talk about it, you must have read it. If you’ve read it, you must have it, If you have it, produce it! You are not looking very credible to me, at least.
Read my reply from January 17.
Please also read my comments from December 9th and 10th.
To Diane Voight: Quoting some lines of text from a website is not the same as providing a research study. A research study is written on paper. It is several pages to several dozen pages in length at least. It follows a process. It contains information on methodology. It talks about margin of error. I find it very hard to believe that you don’t know what people are asking for. I can only conclude you do not in fact have any research on the efficacy of your product. Bizarre.
Dear Elizabeth, I quoted verbatim from the information on the norwexcs website (exclusive for consultants) and yes it is duh probably a synopsis of the total research. You can call Norwex customer service with your concerns about their shoddy information and false claims. (please see previous posts from Dec. 9 & 10, there is a phone number in one of those. I think you should become a consultant.
Why on earth would information on the research behind the product be “exclusive for consultants?” That’s nonsensical. It’s laughable. It’s suspect. I won’t be buying Norwex purely based on Diane Voight’s uninformed interactions here.
are you on crack?? I gave you the phone number to Norwex Customer Service, you and everyone else on this blog, do a little research of your own by going right to the source.
Diane you seem oblivious to the bigger picture. It is not Norwex the corporation who has decided to comment repeatedly on this blog about the research related to their products. Rather, it is you who has done that. You have represented yourself as a spokesperson for the Norwex brand in saying you are a consultant (seller) of the product. It is therefore incumbent upon you to follow through in providing the facts. If you are unable to do that, then perhaps you ought not be commenting as a representative of the company. Additionally, asking a legitimate questioner, “are you on crack??” seems highly unprofessional and not how I would want to be represented if I was Norwex the corporation.
There is some research suggesting that using nano-silver poses real risks to human health and environmental health. The concern is that nano-silver’s bacteria fighting properties can upset the balance in rivers and streams and even impact the good bacteria in water treatment facilities where drinking water is produced. Additionally, mainstream use of nano-silver in consumer products can possibly produce the same problem we’ve seen with over use of antibacterial products – superbugs that become resistant to nano-silver. Something to think about before jumping on the silver/microfiber bandwagon. Think I’ll stick with plain old microfibre – without the nanotechnology!
This is why Silver claims are very dangerous. Follow this link http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2006/07/seasilver.shtm Sea silver made the same type of untested silver claims. This is just an example of how claims can be very dangerous. Not a literal comparison to a silver impregnated cloth.
My wife is always right, so she spent $125 to have a lab grow some bugs. The bugs grew on all tested surfaces (the least was 10% bleach/water solution). The standard microfiber cloth had the most growth in all categories after 24 hr. The silver microfiber cloth had a higher bacteria colony count in certain areas of the cloth, while other ares of the cloth were substantially lower. Over all the best combo for cleaning the test surface was microfiber cloth 150 used with a 10% bleach/water solution.
The 200 microfiber cloth and 10% bleach/water solution still contained breeding cultures after 24 hrs. We are keeping the clothes for general cleaning only. Those of you who want to keep them feel free to use at your own risk. What would make my wife spend $125 on something with out getting something shiny or looks great when worn? MERSA! An infected ingrown hair almost cost me my leg. And that’s why we went back to cleaning the “OLD” way. Our lab test are for us. Never settle for the word unless that word is your own.
You didn’t mention if the 200/microfiber was the Norwex Antibac, or maybe I missed it. Norwex Antibac cloth with just water will remove bacteria from a surface (5% bacteria is harmful). Antibac of course refers to the micro-silver based agent embedded in the cloth. The purpose of the silver is to inhibit the growth of bacteria in the cloth. Norwex plainly states that cloth hygiene is very important. Soap helps release the dirt and grime trapped in the cloth. Obviously, after an intense cleaning you need to launder the fibers. With general cleaning: windows, mirrors, etc. you can rinse the microfiber with a few drops of detergent to remove spots then be sure to rinse the cloth well. Hang flat to dry, if it is bunched up bacteria and mold can grow inside the folds if the soap wasn’t completely rinsed. I spoke with Norwex about this blog, they suggested contacting them @: norwex.customerservice@norwex.com for facts about their products and research. Thanks
Brilliant man…”My wife is always right.”. THANK YOU for publishing these results. The arguments for the use of a cloth to kill bacteria are ridiculous. I believe there is a place for the use of these products, but to stay healthy, I will still use cutting boards, sanitize in the dishwasher, and good ol’ bleach. Thanks again! I hope your wife treats herself to something pretty the next time she spends that kind of cash.
After attending a Norwex party and receiving a Norwex cloth as a gift, I have been thrilled about the idea of cleaning my home without the use of chemicals. After using this cloth for several months I am also thrilled with the performance of the cloth, it cuts through grease like nothing I have used before. I also love that my kiddo can play by my side as I clean and I don’t have to worry about him touching or breathing in any chemicals.
Sadly, I have been disappointed that there doesn’t seem to be much, if any, concrete evidence proving that my Norwex cloth is doing more than just surface cleaning and is actually ridding my home of harmful bacteria.
However, after doing a little research I did find this about e-cloths:
“e-cloths remove over 99% of bacteria. All the main e-cloths have been tested by an internationally recognised micro-biology laboratory (Silliker – 45 laboratories worldwide and work with McDonalds, Kraft Foods & Kelloggs). All have been shown to remove over 99% bacteria, including e-coli, listeria and aspergillus – Click Here for more information. The Mop was proven to remove over 98%. Tests showed that, after a brief rinse, only 0.01% of bacteria are re-introduced to a surface. Additionally, because the cloths do not leave any residue on the cleaned surface, there is nothing left behind to encourage the development of bacteria.”
http://www.ecloth.com/faq.html#4
Here is the link mentioned above: http://ecloth.corecommerce.com/bacteria-removal.html
If these claims are true of e-cloths wouldn’t they be true of Norwex cloths also?
THANK YOU to all who posted…as an eternal skeptic, I do appreciate all sides of the story..I will choose, however, to err on the side of my skeptical nature. I will trust Norwex products for many uses, but not to kill bacteria on kitchen counters or bathroom surfaces. I, too, have been impacted by nasty bacterium, and don’t trust much to kill them. I have a new request for Benjamen…might you begin a thread regarding the Norwex product which claims to eliminate house dust mite waste from bedding and mattresses, by simply spraying? This one seems a little far-fetched as well. Thanks to Benjamen for supplying a forum…this is my newly saved site! (Proud to be a MN girl, as well.)
Many of my friends sell Norwex products and all love it! I was very skeptical at first, but after using their cleaning products and even some of their beauty products, I am convinced that they work. I wish the prices weren’t so high though. If you want to know the truth about Norwex and if it is a scam, visit: http://norwexscam.com.
I checked out norwexscamdotcom. It’s nothing more than an extremely simple website (with a large number of ads) singing the praises of Norwex. If that’s what is convincing people, I could just as easily grab a domain name called NorwexISaScam.com and spend 10 minutes writing text of how much a scam it really is and then provide links to it in discussion forums. Plus I’d get to cash in on some tasty profits from all the advertising when people visit my site.
That website proves nothing except that people who get their information that way are really only trying to enforce their own opinion. Not learn from opposing opinions.
Editor’s note: For the reason listed below, I removed the hyperlink, you can still visit the site by replacing the dot with a . and manually typing it into your browser
Even though I swore never again to reply to this ridiculous blog that enjoys slamming a company whose products they’ve probably never used, and who choose to disregard honest information, the above comment (with all due respect) is mindless drivel. Unless of course ScienceDen has indeed used the Norwex products, or at least attended a product demonstration.
Actually Diane, ScienceDen brings up a good point. Buying a site name like thisproductsucks.com and then proceeding to praise the product is very dishonest. Companies try to do this to game search engines so that when people search for negative reviews they get some canned information praising the product or company. I’m not saying that Norwex is responsible for this site, it could be an independent representative, but if Norwex doesn’t want to be grouped in with other scam companies they should tell the owner to close the site.
Really Diane, again saying that this blog is slamming Norwex is dishonest. We are asking for evidence that the product works, so far it has brought a lot of information to light about Norwex, microfiber cloths, bacterial testing, the role silver might play, and more.
To be fair you’ve given some good information, but maybe you should spend some time learning about scientific skepticism. You’d learn that trying a particular product for yourself is not good evidence. People are fallible and are prey to their own biases. You’d learn that what you some of what you call honest information isn’t good data.
have you tried any of the Norwex products?
For the people out there asking for test results, I Googled “Norwex Efficacy” and came across this link: http://resources.norwexcs.com/test_results/SurfaceCleaningEfficacy2.pdf. If you back up the url a little you get this link: http://resources.norwexcs.com/test_results/.
Editor’s note: I debated posting this comment because it is somewhat off topic and seems to be an less than skeptical endorsement for ENJO, but in the beginning the person started asking some good skeptical questions.
Thank you for sharing that you saw some red flags in the Norwex website. I researched them a few years back and found some other red flags that concerned me…
Odour Eliminator is a popular Norwex product. I copied this directly from the norwex sites….
“Norwex Odour Eliminator is a non-chemical way of dealing with tough and unpleasant odours from perspiration, mildew, smoke, urine, vomit and garbage. Excellent for use in washrooms, garbage cans/bins, lockers, changing rooms, etc.
How it Works
Odour Eliminator contains naturally occurring enzymes that actually eat away at the organic matter causing offensive odours, leaving a fresh and clean scent.”
Now please read the above info again…. notice a huge contradiction here!! Norwex claims to remove 99% of bacteria, protein, etc from the surfaces in your home…. but in the odour elimnator explaination it says that how it works is the enzymes eat away at the organic matter that causes offensive odours like urine, vomit and garbage…. So the only way the odour eliminator works is if the Norwex cleaning system leaves organic mater behind!!!! Yuck! That doesn’t seem really clean to me!
The fact that they even have an odour eliminator concerns me… if after you clean your bathroom or garbage can with Norwex and there are still smells of urine & vomit, its not really clean!
So how can they claim to remove 99% of bateria, protein, etc. I found the answer also in the Norwex websites….
“So how can I santize things like change tables and cutting boards?
The best way to sanitize hard, smooth surfaces is to do a final wipe with a spray of wate and a damp Antibac Enviro Cloth – which removes the bacteria (this will remove more that 99.9% of the bacteria, which is as good as, or better than sanitizing with any chemical. Furthermore, it does not result in any bacteria becoming resistant to chemicals, nor does it prevent good bacteria from coming back). For things like cutting boards or more porous surfaces – flood with straight white vinegar and let it sit for a few minutes, or rub with salt and ½ lemon for a couple of minutes. Or, of course the is the old diluted bleach.”
… They are actually advising you to use bleach on your babies change table when they promote non chemical cleaning. You will also note that the Norwex websites and what the Norwex consultants often say is…. ‘cleaning of hard non porous surfaces’….. reality is very few surfaces are truly non porous. So they are not lying when they say that they are remove 99% from the hard non porous surfaces…. but the problem is most of the surfaces we clean have micropores where the ‘organic matter’ gets left behind. This can cause smells stains and more bacteria to grow.
I tried out many different healthier cleaning options in my search for the best one. What I found was that many of the microfiber cloths available were basically the same… yes they vary in quality and some have gimics like silver in them… but all still microfibers.
Then I found one that i have been very impressed with. It is different. You have probably heard of it. It’s called ENJO. Yes they do carry microfiber cloths. But these are not their cleaning cloths, they are mainly just used for drying and shining.
What makes ENJO special is their ENJO cleaning fibers, mostly found in their cleaning gloves. This special fiber is very different than your classic microfiber because it cleans out the pores of the surface… when the consultant at the demonstration I was at said this it really caught my attention, because that seemed to be the issue with microfiber cleaning cloths. (As I showed above with the info I copied from the Norwex sites).
So I tried out ENJO (still with much skepticism)… I was very impressed… the consultant was right – they were very different. These fuzzy mitts removed stains and smells that my harsh chemicals or microfiber cloths couldn’t. This included urine smell from an old bathroom, garbage smell from a plastic garbage can (we used to have to bleach it), build up in my tubs, a film that I had on my hard wood floors… one thing that really got me when I was first trying ENJO was the old chemicals that I was pulling off of my tub, floors, sinks, etc. you could see and smell it! The consultant explained that that was residue from my old cleaning chemicals stuck in the pores of the surface and the ENJO fibres were pulling it all out with just water!
I just want to say we all eat food, therefore we are all putting ourselves at risk for bacteria. I am not saying I am pro or con for the cleaning cloths, I’m just pointing out there is always a risk of exposure to bacteria. I did recently buy one of the enviro cloths and some of the body cloths. Will I use them to clean up chicken, probably not, since I really prefer not to chop up chicken and choose to put it from the package into the slow cooker (and I put any utensils used with the raw meat into a hot cycle dishwasher). This is the same process I follow with any raw meat. Will I use the body cloths for my face…definitely. I think even though they cloths claim something, and it could be true, I’d prefer to stick with my normal ways of doing things. Isopropal alcohol, hydrogen peroxide and vinegar are all great cleaning products that are safe for cleaning and completely overlooked.
Someone mentioned the test the shows that the cloths don’t leave protein behind but that doesn’t prove bacteria is removed. I did some research and found that protein is 10-100 times smaller than bacteria. So though I don’t want to believe these things could work (though my wife does) it appears they do at least pick up bacteria and smaller particles. I would simply love a news outlet to do some real scientific tests and comparisons because it just doesn’t seem like it could work nearly as well as chemicals designed to destroy bacteria and viruses (though I don’t think norwex claims any ability to kill viruses, the microfiber does at least pick them up).
I must ask, with Robert James providing links to Norwex’s test results, has anyone changed their mind on these cloths?
Wow, the luddite presence in this discussion is extreme. Thanks for putting anything on the Internet about Norwex besides the stupid anecdotal “evidence” that all of these house wives have nothing better to do than peddle.
So I read the entire discussion. It seems that Benjamen asked some reasonable questions about Norwex, only to have a whole bunch of Norwex apologists jump in. Everyone who had good things to say about Norwex was a representative for the product. Hardly objective.
It sounds like this is simply a microfiber cloth with some silver in it. Nothing shocking. Microfiber is quite nice for cleaning things, and silver kills germs. So would a paper towel and some Clorox. Hardly seems worth the premium cost of these things. (And the fact that everyone defending Norwex seemed to be someone selling the products… well, that tells me a lot.)
I have used Norwex for over a year now, I use all of the products including the toothbrush, my husband and I have been sick 1 time in a year, that tells me that the Norwex products are working. I also have breathing problems so the no chemical thing is wonderful for me. I do not have to spray window cleaner or other harmful chemicals in order to clean my home.
Andrew, with all due respect, the point is to get away from chemicals and paper towels.